Anybody that's called my voice mail for the last couple of years or so knows that, judging by the music that's playing in the background, one of my favorite tracks in recent memory is the smooth Blackstar joint "Brown Skin Lady". A while back in my column on the best chopped beats of all time, I erroneously credited production on that track to Hi-Tek (hell, I could barely decipher the credits on that Blackstar album!). So surprisingly I got an e-mail from the real creator, a cat from Ohio by the name of J-Rawls who's been bombarding the underground scene with lots of mellow but rugged joints as 0.5 of the group Lone Catalysts. First on their own B.U.K.A. Entertainment and now affiliated with the Seven Heads imprint (J-Live, Unspoken Heard, Grap Luva, Mr. Complex, etc.), the LC's have put out a nice collection of pure hip hop jams ("Paper Chase", "Due Process", etc.) and have lots more on deck.

        After standing corrected on my "Brown Skin..." gaffe, I asked Rawls to hit me off with an interview and he gladly obliged. Clean out ya ears and open your eyes:

SOULMAN: I guess we can begin with the basics... how did you get started in hip hop and producing?
J RAWLS : I got into hip hop because it's what my boys used to listen to on the block. I started out beatboxing. Then I started rapping after hearing "La Di Da Di" by Doug E. Fresh and Ricky D. Then we discovered Kool & The Gang's "Jungle Boogie" that EPMD sampled in "You Gots To Chill", and we went nuts....went through all my dad's records and started digging and finding loops...been makin beats ever since...

SM: Just in the last few years I've noticed that there's maaad talent in the "three river" area- Ohio, Pittsburgh Pa., etc. How difficult has it been coming out of the midwest and being able to do your thing in the whole New York indy hip hop scene?
JR: That is just the thing- there is talent everywhere, it just has to be tapped. It is very hard to do stuff if you aren't from NYC, but we are trying to break that barrier now...

SM: How did you link up with J Sands? I know from my own past experience how hard it can be to do things as a group when the members live in different cities. How do the two of you deal with that and make it all work?
JR: I met Sands through my man Buka, who we named the label after, and we discovered that we both went to the University of Cincinnati. We went to the same college but met in Columbus....! We run our business via the e-mail...and it works really well.

SM: You and Sands started B.U.K.A. Entertainment to put out your records initially and also hooked up with Seven Heads, one of the key indy labels to watch out for in the 2000's. First, how did B.U.K.A. come into existence, and also how did you get involved with Seven Heads?
JR: B.U.K.A. came into existence to put our records out and to help some of our peoples from the midwest with talent get some exposure...so we just made it happen like that. I had Wes's (Wes Jackson, owner of Seven Heads) number for a long time but never called it until I could give him some product. So when we did the "Paper Chase" 12 inch, it wasn't time. But with "Due Process" we knew we needed Wes...and then we called him. The rest is history.

SM: Other than "Thin As Paper", the MC Lyte remake that you and Sands did, every beat I've heard from you has been real jazzy-sounding. Would you say that it's a case of you staying on a jazz vibe so that people will identify with a signature sound from J Rawls (in the way that Pete Rock made horns his signature sound, for example) or is that simply what you like to sample?
JR: I dont know if I would say that was my signature style. I think I like to make beats to what I am feeling right now. Right now I am into lounge music. That is what I have been listening to, so that will be the influence you will hear in the tracks. But by no means will I stay on a certain vibe for any reason. I always try to make stuff that will make people say "that doesn't sound like a Rawls beat".

SM: Who are some of your favorite jazz artists (to just listen to or to sample)?
JR: Ahmad Jamal, John Klemmer, Roy Ayers, Perry Como, Bobby Hutcherson... man, the list is endless!

SM: Is your production all samples or do you get down on the keys a little bit, too?
JR: I get down on the keys... I like to play samples. That always provides an interesting sound.

SM: What samplers / sequencers do you make your tracks on? What's the whole studio set up like when you're recording your records?
JR: I go to different studios... but I make beats on the Ensoniq ASR-10.

SM: A-ight, this is The World Of Beats so you know we got to get into the record side of things. How many crates do you have right now?
JR: Word, these are the questions I was waiting on! I probably have about 5,000 records...and I still have a lot of my dad's records at his house. He is a CD man now, so I have laid claim to that vinyl, ya know!

SM: How are the spots in the Ohio area? Good records? Good prices?
JR: The spots in Ohio are cool. You can find records for a quarter or fifty cents. But there are also some spots where they will cost a little more. The digging spots are pretty much dug up. Some of the small cities in Ohio can have some hidden treasures.

SM: Do you consider digging for records to be a very important part of what you do as a producer? Are you a cat that's into the whole record collecting aspect of digging, where you're looking for all these crazy rare records not only to use for production but also to add to your collection? Or would you say it's more like, "yo, I don't care if it's rare or not, if it's hot I'm gonna flip it"?
JR: Man, diggin for records is an INTERGRAL part of what I do! If I can't sample anymore, then I ain't making beats. To me, that is the essence of hip hop. I ain't feeling these cats that don't sample. That is hip hop. Look here, hip hop began 'cuz cats couldn't afford instruments. That is what gives hip hop it's mystique. Do you think James Brown would be half as popular if Marley Marl hadn't took that piece of "Payback" for (Big Daddy Kane's) "Something Funky"? To me, that is hip hop and I don't ever plan on changing. I do collect records and consider myself somewhat a record collector, but I am not one of those break junkies digging for samples just because some cat used it or because it has a classic break. If I come across it, then I will buy it. Unless it is important to me, like Pete Rock and C.L.'s "T.R.O.Y. I paid $25 for that Tom Scott and would have paid more... for real, because I had to have that. And I paid nice money for the original to De La Soul's "Ring Ring Ring"... classics like that I gotta have.

SM: I'm still astounded by the job you did on Blackstar's "Brown Skin Lady". We're not gonna give away the original you used for that, but every time I hear that song I can't help but wonder how you thought to chop it up and put it back together the way you did. Did you just hear the sounds and figure that you could seperate them and put them back together again? Or was it more like trial and error, just chopping it and then seeing if you could make something with it?
JR: Man, everytime I make beats I try to chop it up and imagine it sounding a different way. I really don't like to use a straight loop too much, unless it is just dope and I have to use it, ya know. That "Brown Skin..." beat is old. I made that in '95 at college. I had been trying to do that beat for a while. I actually made it and scrapped it, then made it again. Then when I met Kweli in '97 and gave him the beat tape, I put the "Brown Skin..." beat on there as an interlude. Mos Def loved the changes so much, they wrote the song and called me a few months later singing it...

SM: Who are your major influences in hip hop? Who do you think is nice right now in hip hop?
JR: My major influences? Probably like Q-tip, Hi-tek, Pete Rock, Primo. Man, when Tip was making beats (like the joints he did on) Nas' first album, the Mobb Deep album, Crooklyn Dodgers)... I wish beats still sounded like that. I am from that era and those are the kinda beats I make and like to hear.

SM: What's coming up soon from J-Rawls, Lone Catalysts and B.U.K.A.?
JR: Man, too much to name:

• Lone Catalysts- "Politix" 12 inch
• Lone Catalysts- "Superrappin" 12 inch featuring J-Live
• J Sands- solo 12 inch
• Makeba Mooncycle
• Brothers Grimm
• Camu Tao from MHz
• J Rawls solo album featuring Unspoken Heard, Mass Influence, All Natural,
• Apani B Fly, Mr. Complex and a bunch of others
• Lone Catalysts with All Natural 12 inch
• Lone Catalysts with Showtime from Atlanta 12inch

J Rawls' Top Ten Reasons Why Producers Should Sample:

10. Why not?

9. The challenge to make beats out of sounds

8. That is how hip-hop started

7. R&B samples any rap hit, so you may as well sample old R&B hits

6. 'Cuz beats made from keyboards sound like ish

5. Nothing beats a fat snare from an old record

4. Most producers can't play anyway

3. Listen to hip hop from 88-93, this is how its done

2. Music from the 60's & 70's is some of the best music created

1. Step 1: Watch Rap City!     Step 2: Hear the garbage!     Step 3: See that's why every producer should sample

        Y'all remember that classic 30 minute Funkmaster Flex freestyle from a couple of years ago featuring DMX, Canibus and Noreaga? This was at the time that all 3 of them were on the verge of being the next big thing in the rap world. The general consesus of that freestyle display was that a) DMX ripped it, b) Nore sounded like he didn't really want to be there and probably shouldn't have been, and c) Canibus DESTROYED it! So, we ask the simple question... where are they now? Well, DMX has gone on to put out 3 multi-platinum albums, dominate the pop album charts almost continuously and also appear in a couple of movies- obviously, it's been a very good run for The Darkman. Nore's had his share of success as well- a couple of gold plaques, some hit singles and about 50 extra pounds, which is always a good sign that a rapper's been successful lately. And Canibus? His debut album did go gold but even he knows that it was a big dissapointment. And he was supposed to be coming right back out with another album to redeem himself but we still haven't seen it.

        Even worse, around that same time when everybody was saying that Cani was the man, there were rumblings throughout the underground and on 'net newsgroups about some white kid from Detroit that was even better than Canibus. That white kid, Slim Shady aka Eminem, has gone on to debut with a quadruple-platinum album and he's also helped propel Dr. Dre's comeback effort up to 4 million in sales.

        Right now Canibus is basically missing in action. I don't know who's running his career now that Wyclef is out of the picture, but they're not doing their job. Duke has mad talent, but right now it's just being wasted. Will the upcoming sophomore album put Cani back on the map? We'll see...

SOULMAN: SHIT I'M FEELIN' RIGHT NOW

MF DOOM: Doomsday LP

The year 2000 has started off with some certifiable bangers, and this is one of them. Grimy production, but the samples are R&B joints by folks like Sade, The Deele and James Ingram over drums snatched from old school rap classics! Perfectly unpolished all the way through, with ill rhymes from the ex- KMD lyricist- I crack up everytime I picture honey "actin' uncouth, spittin' all out the sunroof through her missing tooth"! Classic material, no doubt.

Now THIS is what a Wu album is supposed to sound like. If they keep putting joints out like this, they will never fall off. Raw, uncompromising beats underneath Starks' ill wu-speak.. so what if you don't understand what he's saying? Rap has always been about speaking in code, just as long as it feels good. And this feels very good. "Apollo Kids" is, to me, a perfect record. "Buck 50", "One" & "We Made It" are also favorites. And lots of people don't get the beat on "Stroke Of Death", but I'm telling you right now, that track is the EPITOME of what hip hop is supposed to be about- aggravating, experimental, unconventional and just plain insane.

Every single track is scorching hot- not one wack moment in my opinion. Fans of their singles on ABB will love this album on Capitol. The most completely dope hip hop album since Gangstarr's "Moment Of Truth".

THE E-MAIL MUST GO THROUGH

Bumpy Knuckles Keeps It Real Part 2
Peace Soulman --

That's just my opinion, based on 23 years of hip hop under my belt. I have the right to bug. (Note: Me and Typenyce argued back and forth all night about my omission of Illmatic from my Top 25 Hip Hop Albums list... he said I was "on crack", I came back with a "fuck y'all", finally climaxing the battle by each of us displaying our "realness" credentials... boy, was it fun! We did eventually come to an agreement and no love was lost. And after thinking about it, I must admit... yeah, I probably did mess up on that one. Illmatic is indeed worthy of Soulman Top 25 status. But I still don't love it as much as some people do.)

WHO'S WHO IN THE WORLD OF BEATS

HELLO! MY NAME IS:
David Woodward.

CLAIMS TO FAME (Look What I Done Did):
Don't really know- as far as records are concerned I found a Mike James Kirkland for $1.85.
(Dave is way too humble- he is the owner and proprietor of Dave's Records, the place to be online for all your beat lovin' needs. www.davesrecords.com)

DAVE: THE EARLY YEARS:
I got started for a few reasons:
1) It went back to hip-hop- I'd been listening to hiphop since early puberty and never really thought about the music that I heard as anything more than just music, I never thought that it might have been from somewhere else. I realized this, believe it or not, when I heard some sample Gangstarr used on the rock group the Band at my cousins house! I couldn't believe that... I mean, I knew they sampled shit but I just didn't realize the depth of it. I didn't even realize there were beats like the "Substitution" or "Impeach The President" on old dusty records!
2) The "World Of Beats" column, bro ! I was getting into it before I first started reading the column. I had some reggae vinyl, I had Sly & the Family stone and a few cds that I dug. But that column really got me into it. I would take the "Beats To Catch" list and go around looking for that artist. Safe to say I didn't find very many but it got me on the right track.

DAVE'S FAVES:
Right now I'm feeling ez listening shit, lounge and shit like Philipino pop music, lush strings and ill percussion like eastern stuff, weird sounds and even moog shit, electronic shit as far as sampling. Psych rock, weird merry go round organ type shit, progressive rock, soft machine, lots of organs and spare funky basslines and beats. I have to say my eyes are open to a lot of latin/tex mex records but they're kind of hard to sample.

DECISIONS, DECISIONS: PHAT ASS BEAT OR BEATIN' UP A FAT PIECE OF ASS?
Okay, whatever man...I ain't even going to answer that...you know damn well finding a phat ass beat !!

DAVE'S FAVORITE EQUIPMENT:
My computer.

TUFF CITY (WHERE THE ILL BEATS IS)
LA or somewhere in the midwest or south. I've only been to the northeast a couple times and frankly wasn't too impressed. LA seems to be one of those long term cities- you don't dig up shit quickly but you eventually find almost everything.

WE ASK DAVE: YOU STILL FEELIN' PRIMO?
A little bit a lot of his style of chopping up beats has been jacked by a lot of people so it's sort of not him. But I have to admit that last Gangstarr album got a little tiring.

THE MOST DOUGH DAVE HAS DROPPED ON A RECORD
$100

DAVE'S ALL-TIME BEST ARTISTS TO SAMPLE OR JUST LISTEN TO:
Ooh, tough one. Probably a few different levels. James Gang, I love. Soft Machine. Ian Carr Nuclues. Zappa, Captain Beefheart, classical music. One of my favorite songs of all time is Beethoven Piano Concerto No. 1. James Brown, Niteliters are my favorite funk instrumental shit. Meters, Dyke & the Blazers, African Music Machine, Tribe's "Low End Theory" and "Breaking Atoms" by Main Source are still my all time favorite hip hop records but like I say I still dig new wave...New Order, Morrissey,etc. Studio One, Lee Perry, old dub reggae. If I had to narrow it down to one right now I'm feeling Wendell Harrison "Dance With The Devil".

RECORD DEALERS THAT MAKE DAVE WANT TO HURL:
Lots of dudes make me nauseous how they talk about having an original pressing of this and this for this and this many cents. But I've gotten into a few scraps with people- nothing physical, but a few confrontations. I just walk away from that shit. Most record stores are alright, some are just set up poorly, like you have to stand and ask the dude at the counter to play them and shit. If you are in LA, one that is cool as far as vibe goes is Record Surplus. Real wide open, lots of people but not enough to where it gets ridiculous. Listening stations, staff that take a back seat and don't try to tell you what to do. THOSE places don't last too long.

THE ULTIMATE QUESTION: HOW MANY RECORDS YOU GOT, AND HOW MANY ARE YOU LEAVING TO THE SOULMAN IN YOUR WILL?
2700. You probably will end up with them if I don't get my ass a job!

DAVE'S TOP TEN OVERRATED RECORDS:

1. Ernie Hines: Electrified Love
   Outside of the "Straighten It Out" shit, an average soul record
2. Pharaoh Sanders: Ipha Zo
   Nice record but not close to what people are paying for it
3. Actuel Label
   What's up with this sh*t?!
4. Dorothy Ashby: Rubaiyat
   "Moving Finger" is nice but it's not even in the same league as "Afro Harping"
5. David Axelrod: Strange Ladies
   Used to be a dollar bin record; not like that's bad but not worth 30 dollars
6. Eugene McDaniels: Outlaw
   Sounds like the Rolling Stones
7. Skull Snaps
   Good soul but not worth $300
8. Billy Brooks: Windows of the Mind
   Wack big band shit
9. Caesar Frazier: Hail Caeser
   Like a decent Prestige record
10. George Semper: Making Waves
    Fat break but that's it!

DAVE'S TOP TEN "PAVLOV EFFECT FROM SIGHT OF RECORD LABEL WHILE DIGGING DUE TO PREVIOUS PLEASANT STIMULI, EVEN IF THE RECORD SUCKS":

1. Vertigo
2. Fantasy
3. King
4. Roulette
5. Tico
6. Musart
7. Blue Note
8. Decca
9. Groove Merchant
10. Polydor